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Pam posted a thread about a rodeo announcer's joke about illegal immigrants. My sense is that many are chomping at the bit to comment about immigration itself. So, I say let's have at it. My own view is that illegal immigration, especially from Mexico, is a crime, but not a serious one. I base this on our punishment and enforcement. We generally deport, and occasionally "get serious" by offering short jail terms for repeat violators. The difficulties with our laws are: 1. Inconsistent enforcement Another difficulty, on the moral side, is that both political parties benefit from the status quo. 1. Democrats get to portray Republicans as racist, heartless zenophobes. The solution is rather simple, but nobody really wants it. More immigration workers need to be hired to process the paperwork, so our LEGAL immigration can become reasonable. Why should anyone we actually want in our country have to wait more than two years? Today some wait more than 14. It's absurd. Once we have a handle on legal entry, we can focus on our weak spots with illegal entry. Why? If the legal path is reasonably attainable, the quantity of illegal traffic should decrease. Also, we'll know that a far greater % of those illegals are really up to no good. Sorry, but the bottom line solution is more government pencil-pushers! Who would imagine a self-proclaimed conservative saying such a thing?
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Good Topic Chaplain! Whenever the topic comes up in any discussion as to the Immigration policies, people to automatically think in terms of the US/Mexico borders and the illegial immigration of Mexicans. And although I see this as a problem, I think there is a much greater problem regarding illegal entry into the USA that people rarely if ever discuss. Regarding immigration from Mexico, I think if jobs are not available, and welfare is not available to non US citizens, there would not be much incentive to cross the border. But for those that do, in spite of the news, many illegal Mexicans come here for work and opportunity much the way our more legal ancestors did. But what I see as the REAL problem is the people who come here through legal loop holes not to work, but to stay and recruit terrorist cells. They don't intend to find jobs. They intend to find or become suicide bombers. And they are not Mexicans. They are Arabs that have loads of cash and so they don't need to sneak across the border. They fly in to our major airports and pay cash to attend college on student VISAS. This is how the 9-11 terrorists arrived and stayed. And the reason our country is doing nothing about it is shear economics. A large majority of our American children have to apply for government loans and grants which cost the government money. The colleges need the tuition money to function. So foreign students with cash in hand are pretty freely welcomed. And these "student Visa" immigrants rarely go back when their visas expire, and they move about the country and are a threat to US citizens. Many create and /or join campus clubs that sympathize with Anti American agenda. I think if we as a country have concerns for immigration, we need to address the greater problems, rather than just trying to build a fence across Texas, Arizona and Claifornia; while the Arabs are flying and landing into Los Angeles, Dallas, Chiciago, New York and Detroit and Omaha etc: |
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PC. I agree and disagree with most of you post. First - I do not think that the major problem is our immigration laws. I believe the greater problem is the corruption of the country of Mexico. I do not believe anything we do in our country will solve the problem - in fact the more we do to make our law enforcement just the greater problem we will have with the corruption in Mexico. Second - I agree that many within our two party political system and society are abusing the situation. But I believe humanity should be far more concerned with the exploitation of illegal?s (including political, social, economic and cultural) than with tasteless humor or possible racial slurs. Is there no humanity in the realization that whatever illegal?s endure in this country it is minor and considered worth it for millions to come here than rather than to try to live in their homelands. Do we not realize that of the few that come illegally that they are the minority of the many trying and planning to come? Get a clue people - Mexico is a country with the world?s richest resources and thus the world?s greatest opportunity. The only reason the Mexican economy borders on poverty and why Mexico is not a super power to rival the USA is because Mexico is corrupt and exploits it own citizens shamefully and we do nothing in the USA but support the shame of Mexico and exploit their refugees for our own purposes. And in our stupidity we are importing the corruption of Mexico at every opportunity. Sorry PC - I do not see your suggestions as a solution but rather a temporary bandage aimed at nothing more than a fleeting chance at feeling good or foolishly thinking we are humane or remotely intelligent. The Traveler |
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First off, the way the US laws on immigration are written, being an illegal immigrant is NOT a crime. It is established as a civil law issue. The problem with immigration is one that has always plagued the USA. Before the Civil War, people cried that the Catholic Irish were going to ruin the nation. There was even a political party established, the "Know Nothings", to fight against Irish immigration. The war on drugs, poverty and illegal immigration have all failed. And they are tied together. Because we do not have a sane immigration policy for good people to immigrate here, they sneak in. Why stay in Guatemala or Honduras where hurricanes have wiped out the economy and crops, and where your children will die of starvation, when you can come here? Why risk the corruption of the Mexican government and drug cartels, when it is safer in the USA? We need to make the borders secure, not to keep immigrants out, but to keep drugs and terrorists out. Then, we need to increase the numbers of legal immigrants that can come here by millions. We need to especially invite those in the Americas to immigrate here, as they can adapt to American culture quickly. We require them to learn English, to learn about American history and the Constitution, and their responsibility to the nation. For those illegals already here, we give them work visas and allow them to remain. If they want to become citizens, they must do one of two things: 1. return to their own country and apply, or 2. enter the US military and after successful service they and their family can apply for citizenship. For those immigrants who are involved in violent or serious crimes, we build jails down in Central or South America, where they can serve their sentences. They are no longer a risk to us here, and we help employ poor Hispanic people at a wage (say $10/hour), where they will be upper middle class and less prone to bribes. We save millions in housing them here, and it reduces their desire to bring gangs and drugs here. With new and hard-working immigrants moving in, we reinvigorate our national pride, freedom, and focus. We have more people to pay into Social Security and Medicare, so that our retirees are cared for longer without having to change the system as radically. It becomes a win-win for them and us. __________________ Rameumptom: A Holy Stand or Podium, where I can pontificate to my heart's delight. rameumptom.weebly.com |
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Well since you want a serious discussion. Here's my 2 cents worth. First let's stop looking at illegal immigration as a Mexico border problem only. The fact it's a serious problem in not just them, but Asians, Africans, and Europeans. Yes many from Europe still overstay there visas. Go ask many in NY or Boston on Irish or Russian etc.... Second it is serious and not minor. Though many come with good intent for making a better life. There are the minority who are here for perverted or eventually wind up in the wrong elements. Do I need to emphasize such? The seriousness of the problem, and we have all heard the arguments such as a toll on the welfare system, the crime, or taking jobs or human enslavement. It is because like the Pilgrims who escaped religious persecution or the Spanish who came to steal gold and enslave the native population. This was in large part due to their inability to stay within the confines of their country to solve their own economic and political problems and to seek glory and riches. This country did the same with it's "Manifest Destiny" and other European Imperialism over the American continents. IMO the USA has committed wrongs in it's illegal immigration past history. However I cannot change that, nor do realistically think the USA will not regress either in territory. If we look at it realistically it's a matter of conquest be it economic or war through attrition. The only way of solving such a problem is to get real serious about it. I am from Texas originally and live in Hawaii. So I understand much about illegal immigration. Just ask a local Hawaiian, and he will give you an earful of the Hawaiian monarchy being illegally taken over by the haoles from the mainland. We are all illegal to them. Another long story though. Anyhow it is virtually impossible to expect local enforcement, and border patrol to keep illegals from crossing. Go down to Big Bend National Park and drive to Presideo, Texas. Hundreds of vast open miles to cross and difficult to watch even with the modern equipment. Heck most of the year you can walk across the Rio Grande and barely get your ankles wet. I showed this to my wife. I crossed into Mexico illegally and walked back and forth. Nothing happened. I say how hard it is for home security, and if you don't believe it ask the military. They patrol the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. However they cannot monitor every bit of wilderness terrain to see enemy movement. Even with drones flying above. The only way we can combat this is to give illegals an excuse not to come. IMO that means political and economic help in make their countries life worth staying and residing in it's borders. Just think about it. If you had as a Chinese or Mexican or Albanian the ability to live our way of life in the land you were born. Would you leave? |
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Everyone has valid observations. This surely is a complex issue that brings great passion. A question though: Would we not be able to get a bitter handle on our ILLEGAL immigration, if we first gained control and efficiency with our LEGAL process?
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"Would we not be able to get a bitter handle on our ILLEGAL immigration, if we first gained control and efficiency with our LEGAL process?" LOL PC that was funny. Serious though. Yeah it would help. but we are talking about our legal system here. I don't have much faith political lawyers. Too many have their own agendas. |
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I'm recalling my favorite professor, who used to announce on the first day of class, "Typos are a sin!!!" As for immigration control...we don't need lawyers...we just need processors to move the backlog of applications along more quickly. Once we tame the pile, we can start to institute selection standards that give us more control over who comes in. I still believe that once the path to legal immigration is logical and efficient, we'll have a smaller illegal immigration problem, and be able to focus better on realistic solutions.
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Sachi001, Your solution would not work. We already send billions in aid to most poor nations already. Either the money is kept by their crooked regimes, or there is never enough to go around. The reality is, until those nations have honest governments, recognize private property rights, Provide good schooling and encourage free enterprise, there will not be a change. We cannot change all of those factors, with the exception of helping with the schooling maybe. We can control our border. We just haven't built appropriate fencing. Guess what? The Berlin Wall kept most east Germans from entering into West Berlin. The DMZ between the 2 Koreas has successfully kept most people from escaping North Korea. There are many other instances on how well this can work. We just have not built a real fence along the border yet. In the places where we have decent fencing, illegal immigration has greatly gone down. Politics, however, keep the fence from ever being actually completed. Then, if you allow lots of legal immigration, then it reduces greatly the illegal immigration. There are fewer people to catch at the border, because it becomes easier for them to come in the legal way. As for those who stay beyond their work/school visas, we are crazy to let talented people from Europe and elsewhere leave. Why have a MIT graduate from India go back to Mumbai to work, when we can keep his brains and talents here benefiting us? When you create a draconian method to handle the situation, it ends up reducing our own freedoms. Do I want INS/ICE stopping me and asking for proof of citizenship? You see what happened to our Homeland Security program. It initially sought to keep us safe. Now through the TSA and other similar programs, it is here to reduce our freedoms. We are not any safer if they are inspecting a 95 year old woman's diaper. But we are less free. Opening up legal immigration, providing a way for illegals to stay on work permits, and securing our borders for purposes of stopping drugs, human slavery transport, and terrorists, will fix most of our problem. Will we stop all illegal immigration? Of course not. But we can make it a winning solution. __________________Rameumptom: A Holy Stand or Podium, where I can pontificate to my heart's delight. rameumptom.weebly.com |
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Last edited by Mahone; 07-04-2011 at 05:28 PM. |
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